You and Bill Simon[3]  and others have been talking about a clean, simple tax system with no gimmicks. Do you think, Walt, it has any chance of getting anywhere?

I think we have a chance. More important, we to have a chance, because the whole system will break down, if we don't do something radical. Just consider, there are forty thousand pages in the IRS manual of procedure-- forty thousand'. There's not an accountant, not a lawyer, not a Congressman who understands them all. So, there's no cop who can read you your rights.

The result is chaos. But we put up with it because every special interest group in the country gets a subsidy.

The biggest subsidy goes to the guy who lives in a suburban house. There's a six billion dollar tax deduction for interest on mortgages. Those of us who live in apartments feel that is not equitable. My proposition is that you throw away the whole damn thing and start from scratch. You put in a simple graduated income tax with a fairly low ceiling and it would raise more revenue than we raise with the Rube Goldberg contraption we've got now.

Do you realize there are 107 people in this country who make over a million dollars and pay no taxes? That's the law. When the injustice of that gets around, and it is, there's no question in my mind that we are going to have a change.

I was with twenty-five businessmen the other day, and we were meeting with a very distinguished congressman. They egged me on to push my proposition, and he looked at me and said, "It's politically impossible." Every other person in the room disagreed. We think it's something that can be done because it to be done.

When the American people perceive the total injustice of a blue collar worker paying more taxes than a millionaire, or realize there are unequal taxes on equal salaries, I think there's a chance of generating enough political steam to do something about it.

The problem is that you and I like to be subsidized. I think, for example, the deduction that banks get for bad debts is one of the finest ideas in the history of the world. That's my loophole. But, of course, your loophole is very unjust.

That's the problem. Talk to the universities and the hospitals. They have such faith in the American people that they are sure nobody would give them any money, if it wasn't a tax deduction. That just isn't so. The greatest period for charitable giving in American history occurred before the income tax. A Carnegie Library on the corner in every town in the Midwest testifies to that.

I submit that if you and I could keep 80 percent of our earnings, we'd be delighted to continue supporting the universities, the hospitals and other charitable foundations.

Instead, there's a spirit abroad in the land now that says all the money you make belongs to the government and anything you keep is a loophole. That's the way it is.

[3] William E. Simon, business executive and former Secretary of the Treasury.