Samantha Chen: Today is Thursday, April 30 2020. I'm Samantha Chen, interviewing Caroline Sugg as part of the Covid-19 documentation product. Samantha Chen: Do you consent to this interview being recorded and donated to touch Digital Collections and Archives in order to be made openly available online in the Tufts Digital Library? Caroline Sugg: Yes. Samantha Chen: Okay. Samantha Chen: So now we're going to get started on some questions. Um, can you tell me your affiliation with the school and what you're studying? Caroline Sugg: Of course, um, so I am currently studying the MALD: the Masters in Law and Diplomacy at the Fletcher School. I'm in my third semester. Caroline Sugg: So one left after this and graduating in the fall. Samantha Chen: Okay. And how was the pandemic discussed and or handled in classes and extracurriculars before the closure? Caroline Sugg: So I think before we were all aware of it, we'd all kind of talk about it, especially, there's the TV right in the Hall of Flags and sometimes kind of pay attention to that. Caroline Sugg: Especially for me. I helped organize a conference at Fletcher, two weeks before the school Caroline Sugg: decided to close. So, um, with that we had to work with some of our sponsors and speakers to make sure that they were still able to travel. Samantha Chen: Okay. And how was the conference. Okay? Afterward, like what happened during the conference? And then after. How did that work out? Caroline Sugg: So, it was for the Fletcher Political Risk Conference and we had to send emails and assurances to one of our donors Caroline Sugg: saying that, to our knowledge, things were fine on campus that they'd be safe. They wouldn't be exposed. Caroline Sugg: So that was kind of one thing we had to deal with. Some of our speakers during the actual conference addressed, uh, Caroline Sugg: Covid-19. It's kind of an interesting to see if they were right or not in hindsight, and then the following week, Caroline Sugg: the first week of March, where I was also part of the European Conference at Harvard, and that's where we had a lot more difficulties because every day there was new updates. A lot of our speakers were coming from the EU, which is obviously like one of the hardest hit places. Caroline Sugg: So there we had speakers dropping last minute, but we had to adapt and some of them were able to speak via Zoom and Skype and I think it was the last major event hosted at Harvard. Samantha Chen: OK. And then how did you learn of the university's decision to close campus and cancel activities? Caroline Sugg: I found out through email. I think that's how most people found out. I remember being with friends and I think we were all kind of waiting, we knew it was coming and Caroline Sugg: The minute it came out, we just immediately checked our email and started reading and figuring out how it was going to affect us and what we needed to do. Samantha Chen: Mm hmm. And so what has the closure - How has it changed your daily life for you? How's affected, how is your daily life affected by the current restrictions? And then are there any adjustments that you've had to make? Caroline Sugg: So I definitely try to not... I definitely try to like not go out, limit maybe at most like once a week. If I need to go to a store. I'm definitely mindful, trying to get out of the house at least once a day for some kind of walk if I can, um, Caroline Sugg: Can you remind me the first part of your question. Samantha Chen: Um, how has it been affected - How has your daily life been affected by the restrictions? Caroline Sugg: Yeah, um... It's, yeah, I don't know, like, like I said, trying to be mindful of getting out of the house, but like doing it in a safe way. Caroline Sugg: Initially when it first started like thoroughly cleaning the house, making sure like I leave my shoes at the front of the entry, washing my hands much more. Caroline Sugg: But other than that, like, I really tried waking up early every day and keeping some kind of routine because it was just so easy to like, Caroline Sugg: you know, stay up late and sleep in and lose track of time. Samantha Chen: Mm hmm. Um, how do you think this pandemic has affected your relationship with others? Caroline Sugg: I think I've had to be really mindful and like, you know, work on relationships like consciously, like make sure I'm checking in with certain people are realizing, like, Oh, I haven't heard from them in a long time. Caroline Sugg: I think, yeah, so just holding myself accountable to that to maintain those relationships because otherwise I think I've gotten used to like being on my own in a way through quarantine and so it is kind of easy to not keep in touch. Caroline Sugg: But it has been really nice like, like I said, taking these walks. Caroline Sugg: Seeing people on their porches. And, you know, from a safe difference, or uh, distance like just kind of shouting from the street when they're on their porch and checking in, that's been really nice just to run into people. Samantha Chen: Mm hmm. How has it been affecting you personally... like feeling... like mental health wise? Caroline Sugg: I think... I'm starting everything with "I think!" But I'm definitely was enthusiastic at the start, like I had that attitude of, like, just tackle it. We got to do this. I'm trying to be resourceful, offering myself to help at the school. Caroline Sugg: I ended up getting an additional job to help professors adapt to the technology. So I definitely have that proactive and let's just do this kind of attitude. Caroline Sugg: But then I think really that third week of classes felt a little burnt out, and realizing that there's these deadlines and I'm not as productive for whatever reason at home. Caroline Sugg: So really having to Caroline Sugg: Put a conscious effort in that as well. Um, but other than that, I mean, I know there's resources. And luckily, I have a roommate to live with. Caroline Sugg: So I'm not completely by myself and, you know, again, reaching out to people, but it is harder because Caroline Sugg: You know that there's so much going on. And there are so many burdens. I mean, these pressures that you're dealing with. Caroline Sugg: With so much uncertainty, like you want to plan for the best, you know, set yourself up. The best way you can for either employment or internships for the fall semester, Caroline Sugg: but you're basing that off of these tight deadlines that are coming up right now when you don't have information. So housing, for example, has just been really stressful trying to decide if to renew my lease or not. Caroline Sugg: Even choosing courses for next semester and trying to find the time to find an internship, while also doing final assignments. Samantha Chen: And how do you think technology has played a role in your life during this pandemic, both in classes as well as just a way to get information and also for entertainment? Caroline Sugg: So technology is essential. It's the only way that we've been able to continue classes. Also, it keeps me sane. I binge watched so many shows. I appreciate Netflix's continuous stream of content. Caroline Sugg: They've actually produced some really good things lately. Um, but yeah, the technology. I don't think this could have been done 5-10 years ago, the way the like transition was done here, now. Caroline Sugg: There's always some kind of kicks here and there, but I think this was relatively smooth and yeah it couldn't have been done, like, you know, in the past, but luckily we have the technology and capability to do it now. Samantha Chen: Mm hmm. And so, how have your classes been going like, how what sorts of messages have you been receiving from professors? Caroline Sugg: Professors have been really encouraging. They've been really understanding. Caroline Sugg: Which I appreciate, because I feel like that has to be a really hard balance for them, of like being rigorous and making sure we're learning what they want us to know Caroline Sugg: But being mindful that we're all going through different, you know, things either moving or Caroline Sugg: What have you, but so the professors have been really encouraging, really open and in a way I feel like this move to technology has made some of the classes more personal. Caroline Sugg: Obviously like still respecting the professors and their authority and their opinion. But I mean, you get to see them in their homes, and I feel like it's kind of taken some walls down. Caroline Sugg: And just understanding that we're all going through things and so are they and so I think that's kind of made the classes really more like human, you know. Samantha Chen: Yeah, okay. And do you think that's better or worse than like the in terms of content? Do you think it's better or worse now? Caroline Sugg: Like the quality of the classes are, uh, I think it depends on the professor. I mean all of, um, Caroline Sugg: each class like took a different approach. So some have asynchronous content and then Caroline Sugg: would divide the class to have these smaller discussions and so that was really great, other professors just did class, the way they usually, would, and it was actually, surprisingly, really great. Caroline Sugg: Other professors kind of went strictly asynchronous and then started using other tools like discussion boards. Caroline Sugg: So I think the content came across it was just a lot more responsibility on the student side to make sure they're like keeping up with all the readings. Caroline Sugg: To be prepared to even engage in... in the Zoom sessions. Samantha Chen: And then how do you feel about the online classes like for you, like, do you think online learning is working for you so far, or is it not as good? Caroline Sugg: I think it's... I think it's good, but also the situation right now in the spring, we had the head start of at least half the semester, getting to know the professor and getting to know their habits, the patterns of the class. Caroline Sugg: Even with... between classmates of, like, who tends to talk more, and what our rhythm really is. Caroline Sugg: And so that kind of carried its way into the second half of the semester. So I'm interested to see what the fall is going to look like. Caroline Sugg: Just because you're going to be starting completely fresh and hopefully, you know, still recognize some professors and classmates and have that head start, but it won't be the same as this semester. Samantha Chen: Yeah. Um, and then... how do you think other students are handling the changes, how are you handling it? And then, how have your normal academic routines changed? Caroline Sugg: Um, so students are definitely communicating more, I think, in different ways. Um, Caroline Sugg: There's so many WhatsApp groups right now if people who stayed local, people who left, or the first years, second years... Caroline Sugg: And so I think they're keeping in touch and trying to throw out more ideas of ways that we can be engaged. Caroline Sugg: I think one of the great things that like Fletcher did, they saw that gap, and started these trivia nights, just as a way to kind of keep the community going on an informal level and then other departments like the Career Services Caroline Sugg: and I know IVGC also have been doing a lot of events addressing specific concerns about like careers and job search. Caroline Sugg: So that's been really helpful as well. [Pause] I feel like I missed part of the question. Samantha Chen: I can ask it again. Um, I think it's like how are you, how are have your academic routines changed, like maybe the way that you're studying or maybe in the amount of time that you're spending in class versus like other things, like, how do you think those have changed? Caroline Sugg: Um, I don't know that it's changed too much. I mean, I used to like studying, like, serious papers I go to the library and other times, go to different classrooms or... but Caroline Sugg: so now I'm doing that from home. I'm really lucky that I have a good setup with like dual monitors and so I feel like I'm able to do a lot of research and still kind of keep up the way I would have. I just think things take longer. Caroline Sugg: Even though there might be less distractions at home. It's just productivity, like it's, you have to make the effort, not get distracted. Caroline Sugg: So that, that's definitely changed. Caroline Sugg: But other than that, I think, also, just thinking about academics, like I've reached out to more professors than I did previously. Caroline Sugg: Because all I had to do was sign up and click a link and I was in office hours with them. And so that was really great. Getting to reach out to the new professors. Caroline Sugg: So that was something different I did. Samantha Chen: Okay. And then, um, how... were you involved in any student organizations or clubs? And then, how has the pandemic affected those? Caroline Sugg: Yeah. So like I mentioned, I was part of the Fletcher Political Risk group and the conference that we organized and so that was able to go off and we were really lucky with the timing, just because it was really close to the school closed. Caroline Sugg: But so now, looking forward, we wanted to Caroline Sugg: do a call for applications for new leadership for next year. And of course, just so many people are distracted and there's just so many demands. It's really hard to Caroline Sugg: To keep track of all these deadlines. So, ultimately what we ended up doing as an organization was suspending the call for applications and putting that off until next year. And so now I'm the interim Chair of the club and Caroline Sugg: Also another student who's staying on next year will kind of try to restart the group, and we'll just, we're just in charge right now for the transition and see if we can find a better time to get people involved again. Caroline Sugg: Also, the Fletcher Cliff otes I'm part of that with another student. And so we volunteered during the transition for Covid. Caroline Sugg: Well, because of Covid. Caroline Sugg: Uh, to help the professors understand the technology. And so... and also students. So we did a couple sessions on just Cliff notes of how to use Zoom. So that was also... I'm really happy that we were able to be like useful to students in that way. Samantha Chen: Okay, that's cool. Um, so, before the quarantine did you have a job on or off campus? What kind of work did you do and how has that been affected? Caroline Sugg: So before the the closure of the school I was working the front desk at the Fletcher School, which was great. Caroline Sugg: I got to see people all the time. I feel like I was in the know about everything that was going on. And then of course it was work study, and so it was a good balance and time dedicated to actually studying. So with the facilities closed I couldn't do that job anymore. Caroline Sugg: And so with through Fletcher Cliff notes and just working with the library team at Fletcher, uh, Caroline Sugg: I ended up transitioning to a role as a tech liaison and sitting in classes and helping professors in case there's any glitches in Zoom. Caroline Sugg: So I feel like I was really lucky that I was able to find a role to transition to but there was a couple weeks of uncertainty, where I didn't know if I was volunteering, if it was going to be paid, what was happening to my work study... Caroline Sugg: So very lucky with the way things turned out. Samantha Chen: Um, and then how- I already asked you how you were feeling. How are the other like, your friends, your family, how are they feeling? How are they doing? Caroline Sugg: So my family they're in Virginia, they're fine. Caroline Sugg: And then it's kind of funny because just within my family. I see the two extremes of being very, very careful and maybe at the beginning, not being careful enough Caroline Sugg: With like health and safety procedures, but now I think they're good, and with my friends, I, I think we're all going through some kind of anxiety or stress but I think the solidarity helps. Caroline Sugg: And we get more information as the days go by. And so I think that kind of helps calm us down. Samantha Chen: Okay. And then how... what are your impressions of the media coverage of the pandemic both currently and then before it arrived in the US? Caroline Sugg: Um, well, so I definitely kind of stopped following it. Caroline Sugg: I think... Caroline Sugg: Immediately when the school is closing and just seeing how quickly the... Caroline Sugg: The, the rate of Caroline Sugg: contagion, was it was happening like that. I would follow it every day. I was like, how many cases, or is it really happening. Are we flattening at all. And at this point, I kind of realized that to see the effect is going to take a while, like you know two week kind of Caroline Sugg: segments so I haven't really been following the news all that much. I will say I have family that's in Spain. Caroline Sugg: And so I do look at Spanish news a lot just to see how they're doing because they are much more restricted, they can't leave their house, there's fines if you're out. So, and then they're fine. But I've definitely been keeping track of their news more. Samantha Chen: Um, what seemed normal a few weeks ago that seems strange to you now? And what are you doing now, that will likely seem strange to you in a month or two? Caroline Sugg: Mmmm, Caroline Sugg: I think getting used to wearing a mask. Um, I, I know there's people who usually wear them. But in the beginning, I noticed Caroline Sugg: like three weeks ago. I'd noticed people wearing masks, um, like... Oh, should I get one? like I'm starting to feel weird if Caroline Sugg: I don't have one on and just now I was out and I wore my mask and saw someone that wasn't, I'm like, what are you doing, wear your mask! Caroline Sugg: So I think that's kind of interesting. The expectation that we have on people, and like the critical mass number of like, when you should be doing something or not. Samantha Chen: Mm hmm. Um, Samantha Chen: So it would this also be something that would seem strange to you in a month or two, or do you think that Samantha Chen: Um, in a month or two, we might still be in this situation? So it may still be normal. Caroline Sugg: Yeah, no, actually, that might be something that lasts. I feel like people are now going to start wearing masks, a lot more. Yeah, it's gonna be a thing. Um, I don't know, like the the weird purchases people make, like just the hoarding of toilet paper. Caroline Sugg That's weird. And I hope everyone's learned their lesson that that's weird. Caroline Sugg It's a comfort buy but how much. Caroline Sugg: It'd be weird if people kept doing that. Samantha Chen: Okay. Samantha Chen: What about- I mean, I know people also have been stockpiling like dry food, people have been stockpiling like non-perishables, would that look weird in a month or two, or based on our current situation, do you think it would might get worse, and that might be good? Caroline Sugg: I mean better be safe than sorry. And, you know, if things get better and you don't need that many cans of whatever in your pantry, donate it. Uh, I think that's probably the best way better be safe than sorry. Samantha Chen: Okay. So how have your plans changed for the near future? What were you planning to do this spring and the summer, that is now uncertain? Caroline Sugg: And so I was supposed to intern in DC at the State Department and that was cancelled. So now I'm not really sure what to do this summer. Um, I think just not- once I finish exams, I'll have time to reach out to my network and either consider writing my Capstone full time or trying to come up with some project that I can propose. Caroline Sugg: So we'll see, that's still uncertain. Caroline Sugg: And then I think just for the rest of the year, I mean, I only have one semester left to graduate. So I think I can muster the energy to just finish, but it is bittersweet. And so part of me just keeps thinking like, what's a way around this. But we'll see. Samantha Chen: Okay. Um, is there anything else that you would like people to know? Samantha Chen: About your situation, about your story, anything? Caroline Sugg: I can't think of anything really. Samantha Chen: Okay. Well, then, that concludes our interview. Thank you very much. Caroline Sugg: Thanks, Sam.