Audrey Carver: Alright, Professor Talusan, do you consent to this interview being recorded and donated to the Tufts Digital Collections Archive in order to be made openly available online in the Tufts Digital Library? Grace Talusan: I do. Audrey Carver: Great. Thank you so much. So would you mind starting off by introducing yourself and your affiliation to Tufts? Grace Talusan: Sure. I'm Grace Talusan and I teach it at Tisch College. I think my official position is visiting lecturer and I teach Grace Talusan: in the 1+4 program and the Tisch Scholars Program and before that I taught first-year writing in the English department. And before that, I was an undergraduate at Tufts and I graduated in 94' so I'm an alum as well as a faculty member. Audrey Carver: I didn't know that you were an alum! That's really cool. Audrey Carver: Um, so and where are you now? After the- Grace Talusan: I'm steps away Grace Talusan: from the university. I live in an apartment with my husband across from the the gym. So we're like, literally, half a block from from the university and many students live on our street. Audrey Carver: Oh, nice. Okay. Now, how does the university look now? What is it like now that it's all empty? Grace Talusan: It's empty. I mean, I haven't walked up there for a little while. But even when we were walking around um... Grace Talusan: You know it's it's empty of students and the people who are working every day, like, you know, doing Grace Talusan: maintenance and stuff like that. So there was just a few people there, like maybe there was someone walking their dog. It was very empty especially for spring semester when there's more activity. It seems maybe because people are visiting to decide if they want to go to Tufts. Grace Talusan: There's families sometimes. We see people coming in for commencement. Like, you know all of those things, alumni, the campus was noticeably empty for spring. Audrey Carver: Wow. Yeah, that sounds very strange. Audrey Carver: So what is daily life for you like there? Audrey Carver: Um now? Grace Talusan: Well, I'm still- teaching is winding down but I still have um, Grace Talusan: -a little more to go with that. Grace Talusan: But daily life was, or is turning on my computer, you know, having coffee. Grace Talusan: I mean, I'm in the whole time. I haven't, I don't leave very much but I have coffee and then I turn my computer on and answer correspondence, which can take a long time. Grace Talusan: And then in the afternoons, I have teaching. And sometimes I'll have meetings, sometimes on Zoom sometimes on the phone, with my teaching team or with individual students. Grace Talusan: So you know, a lot of the work that I'm doing is coming through the computer, whether I'm having meetings or it's me doing like typed correspondence. Grace Talusan: I also am um on, like the pandemic, I was starting my paperback book tour for my book which is right here. It's right on my side because I'm doing all my book events right here too so Grace Talusan: I have the paperback for my book, and we were doing book events so that people would know about the book and that got waylaid so Grace Talusan: Um, we've moved those events online. So I'll generally do like teaching. And then a few hours later, I might have some kind of book event where I'm meeting with a book seller or Grace Talusan: meeting with a class or something like that and talking about my book. So now the world comes through me to me through my computer these days. Audrey Carver: Yeah. How does that feel you're like, how has your relationship to technology kind of shifted throughout this time? Does it use different energy than it does to interact with people online, you know, kind of- how was that transition going for you? Grace Talusan: Yeah. I mean I'm grateful that we have something, you know. Grace Talusan: It would definitely be so much harder if we just did this with email or if we just tried to do this by correspondence like snail mail or something. It'd be near impossible. So I'm grateful for the technology. Grace Talusan: And there's a lot of benefits, like when I do book events. There are people that probably wouldn't have had the opportunity to come to my event if it had been physical you know, if we have been physically able to, because maybe Grace Talusan: they couldn't commute or they would be working or whatever. Like there's I just, I realized that like people that wouldn't necessarily go to book events are showing up. Grace Talusan: So you know all of that is really good. I think for me personally, I do find this kind of interaction Grace Talusan: exhausting. Like I'm not used to staring at myself and the other person like so close up for hours a day. Audrey Carver: Mhm. Grace Talusan: And I don't- for me in my particular like personality and make up- I don't like it. So, I mean, it's fine. I can do it. And I can, I know how to like operate the technology. But in terms of my preference when I'm teaching, I like a little more space in between me and my students. Grace Talusan: I also like like to do all kinds of things in my classroom so that we're not just stationary and sitting there staring at each other or staring at like the projector or something. Grace Talusan: I try to keep my classes very active and it's harder. I mean of course you can do breakout rooms on Zoom and stuff, but it's just not the same. So, of course Grace Talusan: there's ways that I find it exhausting. But I also have to keep perspective and say, like yeah, but this is totally like physically risk-free. Audrey Carver: Except for the fact that I'm sitting still. Grace Talusan: I'm not in a position where I'm testing people for the virus or caring for people with the virus or cleaning up after them or anything like that. So, Grace Talusan: in the scheme of things you know, any small complaint that I have is like nothing compared to what other people have to do to keep their job so. Audrey Carver: Yeah. Grace Talusan: You know I just feel like I'm describing, you know, what it's like for me to teach using Zoom but my complaint on the spectrum of things is very, very small. It's like an annoyance, as opposed to anything bigger than that. Audrey Carver: Yeah. Well, thank you for that perspective. I've been curious how my professors are kind of feeling about the online classes, the Zoom classes as well because... Grace Talusan: Yeah, I mean I've taught online for like at least a decade. So I know I'm used to it. I'm just not used to Grace Talusan: 100% all of my work operating this way. Like if I've taught an online class probably every year for 10 years Grace Talusan: but the bulk of my work time is not online. Like I'm out like meeting people face to face. I'm doing things out in the work physical world. Grace Talusan: So maybe it didn't bother me because you know everything wasn't online. But that's I think, that's why. It's because the the diversity of activity is... it's not there. It's just everything is this way by a video. Audrey Carver: Yeah no, absolutely. Um and in terms of the way the Tufts kind of handled the transition online, do you- how do you feel like that went from, from your perspective, from the professor perspective? Grace Talusan: I mean, for me, it was pretty easy. Grace Talusan: You know, I was already- as I said- I've been teaching online for at least a decade. So it wasn't hard for me. I know Grace Talusan: other people and other situations. It probably felt near impossible, especially for people who haven't Grace Talusan: been doing online teaching at all, or even using the many tools that Tufts has so I can see for them, it was probably a lot. But for me it was pretty seamless. Grace Talusan: And I was happy to see my students because I hadn't seen them in so long. So the first time I saw everybody at home Grace Talusan: in their spaces. I was pretty happy about it. I was like, oh there you are, like I've missed you! So it wasn't a hardship for me, but I do know for other people. I'm assuming I haven't talked to them, but I'm assuming for people who are not Grace Talusan: Comfortable. I mean, some people don't even use the web management, the course management systems right? So if you're not even doing that, Grace Talusan: that's hard. Like when I've used many different course management systems and every time a new one is introduced, I have to tell you it's hard. Like there's hiccups using it. And there's a lot of frustration and annoyance every time I have to switch to a new platform. Grace Talusan: So I have to do that. Plus, learn online video culture when you're teaching and management, I think is difficult. But for me it's not and I don't think I mean, you know in terms of Tufts preparing me Grace Talusan: to teach. You know they didn't have to do anything with me but for other people, I think I can imagine it was probably very hard. Audrey Carver: Yeah, yeah, I'm sure the different for everybody, the way that they're handling it. So looking ahead now into the summer, I don't know if you had preexisting plans that were changed or, you know, kind of what's on the horizon for you, but how's it looking? Grace Talusan: Um, well, I was supposed to travel and I supposed to travel to Asia. I was supposed to do more like in-person Grace Talusan: book tour stuff. So none of that is happening. Grace Talusan: Um and that's fine. Like, I'll just you know, I Grace Talusan: um I have my independent research and writing that I can do. So I'm going to continue doing that. Grace Talusan: You know, it's not horrible for me. It's not like I work in a laboratory or something where it would be difficult for me to do my work. Like I'm lucky in that all I really need is Grace Talusan: a notebook and a pen or or a computer and I don't even need internet connection to do my... um to do my writing. And so in that way it's fine. Grace Talusan: I mean ideally, I'm not sitting at home, writing. I prefer to go to other places, but Grace Talusan: that's fine. Like, I can't do that. So I'm just going to have to make my space and make a new writing routine. But I'm taking I'm going to take an online class. I'm going to continue to meet with my writing group. Grace Talusan: You know, I've learned that writing Grace Talusan: especially long independent projects for me, it works better if I'm Grace Talusan: I'm working if I have like accountability and other people that are seeing my writing and I have deadlines and stuff like that so Grace Talusan: that's helpful. Grace Talusan: Um, yeah I mean, in terms of like financially, I have to- I mean- I lost, I definitely lost income from book events and some teaching and I have to be a little more careful with my spending. Grace Talusan: But you know, I think I'll be okay. I just have to, I'm not, it's not catastrophic. It's just that I have to be careful. But given that Grace Talusan: so much as shut down. it's probably is easier to take, you know, to be mindful of my expenses and you know I'm not in a situation where I know Grace Talusan: other people are in catastrophic financial situations where they are unemployed and having difficulty accessing unemployment benefits. So I'm not in that situation. And that's something that I'm really grateful for. So I think I can just kind of skim along and go along and Grace Talusan: you know make it till September until we see a new school year starts. And we see what's going to happen. Audrey Carver: Yeah, great. Thank you. Yeah it's really great that you have a writing group too. I know that social life for work but also I know social interaction is kind of Audrey Carver: hard to come by and difficult to find these days. So um yeah have you, how has your social circle been? You know your your community outside of Tufts. Are you guys still connecting a lot, how is that going? Grace Talusan: Yeah, so with my writing group, we have two standing like hangouts every week Grace Talusan: for an hour after the after the day is over. Grace Talusan: You don't have to, like it's optional. You can go or not go but it's a standing hangout. And then once a month or every three weeks to once a month, we have Grace Talusan: writing critique group where we show our work and we'll talk about it. So that is definitely a social outlet. Like we'll play games, like there's like online word games we'll do together Grace Talusan: or we'll talk about like how's it going, and all of that. So that's one group. I was visiting, like doing socially-distant visits with my family who live an hour away. Grace Talusan: My parents, my sister, her family- we are like meeting six feet apart on her porch and wearing masks and hanging out there for like an hour once a week. But we stopped doing that because the town that she lives in is second in infection rates in the state. So we stopped doing that Grace Talusan: for the sake of all of us just in case. Just that we can, even though we are doing like hanging out in the safest possible way, we just stopped. Grace Talusan: So that's dropped out and that's been a bummer but we do have birthdays. So like I have a really big family so we've had birthday celebrations on Zoom and we'll get together for about 15 minutes to half an hour. Anytime someone in my family has a birthday, so there's like 30 of us in the family- Grace Talusan: maybe more- and you know Grace Talusan: we'll watch like, a video of... like clips from the pers- the birthday celebrant's life and then pictures and then we'll sing happy birthday and light up the candles. And so we were doing that anyways Grace Talusan: when there was a birthday, we would Grace Talusan: get together- because we're all over the country- we would get together on video, but a lot of us would be physically together. But this time it's like every household is their own video screen now so... Grace Talusan: That's an adjustment as well. Grace Talusan: And I have other friends too. When we get together like we'll eat dinner together. Grace Talusan: I've been doing, I've been, I'm getting my nieces and nephews together and doing like a writing class with them once a week, just as a way to like hang out and also do some enrichment because they're all doing Grace Talusan: learning at home now. So I've been trying to do that and whoever's available. My sister has been doing language classes with them, teaching them Tagalog. So yeah there's a way that we're trying to Grace Talusan: stay connected and you know keep people active and stuff like that. Grace Talusan: Yeah but I mean, in my larger kind of Filipino-American immigrant network here in Boston, one of the long-time-- one of our longtime family friends Grace Talusan: died about a week and a half ago. And she was a grocery store worker and she caught it probably at work and she was hospitalized and then she died. Grace Talusan: And so then her daughter also was hospitalized but her her daughter luckily recovered and was able to go home to her daughter. Grace Talusan: And there's no like fathers or husbands in the picture. So it was really small family. And that's been, you know worrisome and and you know, I mean I know a lot of people are losing a lot of people, but it's like we don't have Grace Talusan: you know, um our usual like death and mourning rituals in place. So it's all a little bit... Grace Talusan: um kind of unbelievable and hard because of course when someone dies, you want to be there for their family and you want to provide support and all that but... Grace Talusan: So I don't know. So there's things like that. And you know, I fully, if things don't get under control, like I fully expect many people will experience losses and all of us will know somebody or Grace Talusan: you know, have somebody we were close to or something like that. But hopefully things will get under control. And we also know that this, in some way that there's populations that are disproportionately Grace Talusan: um impacted too, not just like demographically in terms of age, but also there's ways that socioeconomics interacts with that. So yeah. Audrey Carver: Absolutely. I'm so sorry for your loss. That sounds really hard. Um what in in the absence of, you know, our kind of traditional mourning and grief ways of processing Audrey Carver: was there anything that was done in that in the absence of that or in you know, kind of done differently to... to to mark her life and to, you know, provide support or are you guys kind of just waiting? Grace Talusan: think we're kind of waiting, because the she died about a week before her daughter was released from the hospital. And so the daughter is the one that's like taking care of stuff. Grace Talusan: And you know, we don't usually, like for us Catholics specially like Filipino Catholics, you don't usually get cremated, but that was like the only option. And so that was different too Grace Talusan: is that she was cremated and I think her daughter has the urn. At this point, and she's, she's still like recovering. So she's trying to figure out, like, okay, like, what are we going to do? Grace Talusan: Um I think her daughter was having trouble getting a priest to administer last rites. It's called extreme unction. We have seven sacraments in our religion and it's the final one and Grace Talusan: you know, that wasn't possible and so Grace Talusan: yeah. So I think things are on hold I think until her daughter gets better and can figure out what's going to, we're going to do, or they're going to do. But at least for now Grace Talusan: she's been cremated and maybe once we can see each other again, maybe we'll do like have a priest and do mass and do some kind of thing with the memorial mass with the with her remains. Grace Talusan: But it also brought up the question, at least for my mother who is in my family, probably the closest with this friend and she was just she was telling me, like, okay, these are the things Grace Talusan: I want, because with our friend, it happened really fast. Like she went to work, she got sick, and then she had to be hospitalized and that was kind of it. Grace Talusan: So my mother is like preparing and she's like, okay, I have my bag ready in case something happens like here's the things that I want. Grace Talusan: This is what I want to do. This is what I want to go with me to the hospital Grace Talusan: if I am that sick. This is how she's like, I know that it's hard to get a priest in the hospital. So I want you to call like these priests and see if they'll administer the sacraments over a video Grace Talusan: and do it that way. So for my mother. It's very important of the sacraments, so she's already like made a detailed plans about like what she wants to do Grace Talusan: what she wants to happen. And I think it's fine. I mean, I think we've talked. Grace Talusan: I think it's important. My parents are in their mid-70s, and we've already- there is a time of your life where you need to talk about like, Grace Talusan: like a see[?] and your will and advanced directives and nobody wants to talk about it, but you have to. Otherwise decisions get made for you Grace Talusan: and you know. And my mother's prepared us for a few years and said- I mean not not for a few years. For a long time, much she's put little sticky notes on like with our names on her things already like if you, if you take like Grace Talusan: a statue or a piece of art or a piece of jewelry that she doesn't wear anymore and you like turn it over, like one of our Grace Talusan: children's or her grandchildren's name is on it because she doesn't want us to fight about stuff. Grace Talusan: And she's already like given me like what she wants to to be read and what she wants to be sung and all this other stuff at her mass. So I don't know, maybe that's weird for her to like have planned it out detail, but I think she's the youngest of nine children and so Grace Talusan: as the youngest she's been through a lot of funerals for her siblings. So I think she just like, once everything, she's seen how people fought with each other unnecessarily. And I think she just wants Grace Talusan: those decisions to be made as smoothly as possible and not to have like lots of drama about it or unknown Audrey Carver: Yeah, I mean, unknown stuff is scarier to right so... Grace Talusan: Yeah. Audrey Carver: That's intense though. But how are you feeling about that. Are you okay? Grace Talusan: Yeah, yeah. I think it's better than to not talk about it because it is a reality. Like I mean, my parents are at home but it doesn't mean that Grace Talusan: there's 100% no chance that something they don't interact with somebody or somehow you know. They're taking like the most precautions but Grace Talusan: still. Like it's... they're not in a situation like my brothers who work in hospitals. They're not like my aunt. I call her my aunt but I call her Tita Chris who Grace Talusan: who worked at Star Market, they're not in that situation but you know, you just don't know. And I also think, I mean, I think the question of like what's going to happen today or tomorrow. It's always there as a question like you don't know, but Grace Talusan: what's going to happen to you could have a stroke, heart attack, you could get, you know, be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Grace Talusan: But I think it would be very difficult to live and to go about our day if we're always thinking about, oh you're more likely to get into a car accident than you are a plane crash or like you can't think about those things. Grace Talusan: And like go on with our day. So, but in this scen- case right now with the pandemic like Grace Talusan: it's all we're thinking about. It's like something could come into your house, someone could sneeze near you. With my aunt, someone threw up near her and that's what did it. She wasn't wearing a mask the person was sick and went to work and Grace Talusan: that's it. Like you know, that was enough and then she gave it to her daughter and then like... so it's you know um it's... Grace Talusan: just a different situation that we're in right now. Audrey Carver: Yeah. Grace Talusan: So it makes sense that people are thinking about it and talking about it, and I guess... you know it makes me feel less safe if we pretend things aren't happening or.. Grace Talusan: if we try to shape a narrative to the exact opposite of what it is, which is when I see press conferences with the President. I see that happening. And that's terrifying to me, actually Grace Talusan: to see a narrative gets shaped by someone in power and someone in authority, who people believe him. And he's saying stuff that is blatantly false. Grace Talusan: First of all, like treatments that people have tried, the bleach, the chloro- whatever quinine stuff and then shaping the narrative of like his role and everything. I think the New York Times counted all the ways that he's Grace Talusan: given himself credit for how wonderful things are and it's like Grace Talusan: if anybody has any sort of critical thinking skills and knows what research and evidence and expertise is Grace Talusan: You know, you would, that would directly challenge what's coming out of his mouth. But you know sure it is comforting to have someone in power tell you, everything's fine. But does that make it true? Grace Talusan: Does that keep you and your family safe? No, it doesn't. So I mean, that's even more terrifying to me. Audrey Carver: Yeah no absolutely I've also my family and I have been watching all of this stuff and just like there's no way to even comprehend where it's where it's coming from. It's hard to wrap your mind around for sure. Audrey Carver: Um, so out of all of this kind of insanity that is happening right now Audrey Carver: do you see any long term changes happening like for you either for you personally or in social trends, just about perspective or about trust in politics or you know, just kind of really anything? Grace Talusan: Um, I mean if I speculate and predict about life in the future Grace Talusan: I don't know. I mean, you're finding me on a day where it seems hard to think like, when will this end? Like I know some states are starting up again but I feel an opening up and I feel very suspicious of that. Grace Talusan: And I think, okay, so they're going to do this and the models predict that if we do it this way like we're going to see another surge. Grace Talusan: You know now or are we going to see another surge in October or there's going to be another surge in the winter so this seems like a very long term thing until they come up with a vaccine. Grace Talusan: Um, so I don't know. I mean you know, so to me long term, it seems like I guess I'll just continue the way I'm going now. And for me, I'm okay, I can do my teaching Grace Talusan: through this method. Grace Talusan: And that's- that'll work. But the other questions that come up are, but will students want to continue Grace Talusan: to learn in this way? There's some polling that's been done that's that they don't. They want to be in person and for some classes, I think that's absolutely necessary. Grace Talusan: For some like writing, maybe it's not. But there, they might decide they don't, they're going to take leaves and they don't want to actually come back for a while. So I don't know what that is going to mean for me Grace Talusan: economically, like if I'll you know if that'll be you know I don't know. And I don't know what that means for like my income or whatever, if, if we get to that place Grace Talusan: I know that the economy is going to be in a really bad place for a few years. Grace Talusan: So I don't know. I mean, I don't know what what things are going to look like. They're going to, I mean, they're probably going to be bad, like this is bad now and it's probably going to be worse. Grace Talusan: And but then the thing that always, you know, and every time things get worse. It's like, but they can also get much worse, which is that you could be sick, you could be permanently disabled. You could also lose your life. Grace Talusan: You could always be afraid that you'll have a stroke after you get Covid. I mean, or heart attack. There's like so many things that can be worse. Grace Talusan: So what do you do Grace Talusan: when things are like have changed a lot? They're not great. They're not how you want them to be. And yet you know that they are probably going to get worse and you're going to hope that they don't get as bad as they can get. So I don't know, it's like kind of going on right now. Audrey Carver: That's a hard question to to ask for speculation, because Audrey Carver: I feel like everyone's just kind of like in this really strange gray area of uncertainty. Um. Grace Talusan: Yeah, yeah. Grace Talusan: And then what is the antidote right? Like so yes, a vaccine Grace Talusan: is great. But who steps in when... I mean I think it's the government that like or you know. Grace Talusan: There's you know, this is like brings up all the huge inequities in our society. Like why should a few people in their families be sitting on billions of resource dollars of resources when people are really suffering? I mean that's always been the case anyways. But Grace Talusan: it's even more pronounced now. We can see it. I mean, I would do that. I'd mentioned it like in my Grace Talusan: writing when you know like I would go on the Philippines. I would go into a Starbucks and walk out with a drink and it's like Grace Talusan: you know, there's a baby sleeping on cardboard like outside of the door. So, I mean, what is that? Like I'm getting a drink that could feed that family for a good week. Grace Talusan: And so I don't know. We don't generally have to look at that kind of huge visual proof of inequity but I just- you know. We're going to see it more and more. But I think Grace Talusan: I mean I think the government should step in and I think there should be something about, like people should feel some sense of care for their fellow humans especially if they have a lot of resources that they're sitting on. Yeah. Audrey Carver: Absolutely. I think that some, you know, a direction I was kind of trying to go in with that conversation, knowing that things are bad now and that they Audrey Carver: probably will continue to be is that if there's any change that you wish you could see or like if you could make a change, what would it be? Grace Talusan: Yeah. Grace Talusan: I do. I think this is a... it's a horrible time but I think because people have changed their behavior so drastically, it shows us that we can sustain drastic change. Grace Talusan: And drastic changes that could help our society in ways, we have like lots of entrenched problems that we're facing. Grace Talusan: Climate change, economic inequality, all kinds of things, the healthcare system. There's like a lot of them and some of them are occur again. Grace Talusan: more evident now. And so what can we learn from this extended pandemic and put things in place so that when something like this happens again- which we're told it will happen again- Grace Talusan: what can we have in place so that we've learned from this moment? I think this happened with the crash of the stock stock market Grace Talusan: in the 20s, I think I don't not like an economist, so I don't know, a huge amount about that history but I think like people made regulations and rules so you wouldn't see that kind of Grace Talusan: thing happened. It happened I think after 2008 as well. There was like regulations and rules that were changed. So you know, what if we can do things like that to make changes so that Grace Talusan: you know, we prevent or mitigate Grace Talusan: things that we know will probably occur again. Grace Talusan: I also think like in terms of Grace Talusan: the working world, maybe there is something to partial online work from home. Grace Talusan: Uh rules. Maybe that'll help with commuting, maybe that'll help with Grace Talusan: You know carbon footprints and Grace Talusan: uh people's health for that matter. Like that they're not having to commute so much and so far away and we can we can you know try to work Grace Talusan: in ways that that emphasize our a balance of, you know, health more. Grace Talusan: So I think Grace Talusan: Things like that are possible. Audrey Carver: Hmm. I hope so. Audrey Carver: Yeah, well, we'll just have to see. Grace Talusan: Yeah. Audrey Carver: So those are pretty much the questions that I had prepared. Thank you for being so open and for sharing with me about you know everything that's happening with you. Audrey Carver: I really appreciate that. And I know that Tisch really appreciates that, you know kind of the wealth of stories that we're trying to collect and I think yours is a really valuable one. So thank you. Grace Talusan: Thank you. Well, one of my favorite places to do my work is in the Tisch Library and so it's kind of nice. I love the idea that this video will be in the archives and my students do used to do Grace Talusan: projects in the archives. So I feel I definitely feel a connection with the library and glad to Grace Talusan: contribute. So thanks for asking me to. Audrey Carver: Yes, yes, thank you for volunteering and is there anything else you'd like to add? Grace Talusan: Um, no, that's- that's fine. Okay, thanks though. Audrey Carver: All right. In that case, I'm going to stop the recording. Grace Talusan: Okay. Audrey Carver: Let's see.